Have you completed employee reviews in the last month? Did it feel like a good use of your time? Did you feel like you were really building value in your company or did you feel like you were checking off a box on someone else’s cover-my-butt list?

Be honest.

When your Outlook calendar is completely colored in and you don’t know what half of the meetings are, you should probably start to think about giving yourself a demotion.

I’ve been inspired reading Seth Godin’s new book “Linchpin” which launches today. (Buy it here. I love the book because you can dive in anywhere and pick up some uncomfortably challenging advice.)

In the spirit of Seth's book, I offer my favorite way to free up time while making a bigger impact at work...

One of Seth’s most uncomfortable sections (for those of you in corporate jobs) is on the commoditization of white-collar jobs. If you are just checking off other people’s boxes you are putting yourself at unnecessary risk of becoming just like any other middle manager. Which means that you can be replaced with any other middle manager.

Instead, Seth challenges each of us to become a Linchpin:

The linchpin is an individual who can walk into chaos and create order, someone who can invent, connect, create and make things happen. Every worthwhile institution has indispensable people who make differences like these.

If you are sitting in someone else’s meetings all week you aren’t becoming indispensable.

You are in a career holding pattern at best and in danger of a career death spiral at worst.

Working more hours will just make it harder for you to make a big contribution. You need a way to focus your efforts on something that will challenge you and bring real value to your company, without requiring another 30 hours of meetings each week.

Here’s my radical suggestion for creating more time and flexibility in your job: give yourself a demotion from management to a position where you can directly make a strategic contribution. I call this “strategic downshifting”.

Just like downshifting in a car, this gives you more power and control. It also makes your engine rev higher and gives you faster acceleration. That is to say, you can create a place where you can be excited about your work again.

I’ve done this three times in my career and I know of dozens of others who have had similar experiences. There are several factors to a successful downshift:

• Find a place where you are excited and can see new possibilities

After we sold a company where I was VP of Sales & Marketing, I was excited about applying our new parent company’s licensing business model to our old industry. I knew it was a chance to influence a significant change in the way optics were sold for cell phone cameras. But I couldn’t do it from my management role. Instead, I took responsibility for leading the business development efforts by myself with no team.

• Look at previous jobs to find great launching pads

Bob got passed over for a promotion early in his career at GE. Instead of continuing to press for a management role, he focused his productivity on inventing new products. He had a happy, sane 40 year career there and was awarded over 50 patents. (The guy who beat him out for the management job was let go 6 months later in a restructuring effort).

• Build a new constituency to support your efforts

Work with your management to ensure a graceful transition. Even more importantly, make sure that you have support from people excited about what you will be doing in your new (old) role. They can help smooth over any resistance you encounter.

• Watch out for the pull back into management

Traditional advice says that taking a step backwards on the career ladder means that you are done for. This is exactly the opposite of my experience. I have found that the wisdom and passion you bring to a downshifted role tends to bring results and recognition. My shift to a direct sales role netted me a bonus within 6 months.

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In the first excerpt from our interview, Pam explains how she started the blog and gives insights into how she has successfully balanced the practical parts of her life with her passion for helping budding entrepreneurs.

John Cleghorn served as speechwriter for Bank of America CEO Hugh McColl during the trememdous growth that built the second-largest bank in the US. John's speechwriter role was the first of a successful 18-year career at the bank that also included a job as head of Issues Management.

At the age of 46, with a wife and two young daughters, John has just left his career in banking to answer the call to ministry.

In this second of a two-part interview, John talks about the challenges of facing a major career change and about the need for “courageous conversations” in looking for your calling.

“There was always that option to say, ‘We are pulling up roots and moving to Princeton and we are going to live in a dorm with two little girls,’ but that was way, way too disruptive.”

Take-Aways

Read the full interview:

Avocationist: The desire to go into the seminary never really went away?

John: No, it never went away. As much of a company man as I was and as stimulated as I was by all of that, my internal voices kept reminding me that that wasn’t the best and highest use of my life, as wonderful as it all is. I periodically pulled up considering the seminary and said, “Could I scratch that itch? Could I go to Duke? Could I go to Columbia?” But I had a family and a mortgage and a life in Charlotte and there was no seminary here that suited my theology—then one opened up in Charlotte with a weekend program for second career people.

Avocationist: You mentioned that your banking career wasn't "the best and highest use." Why do you think you felt that way?

John: I am not a “voice in the middle of the night” kind of person, but there is an obligation to constantly ask, “What is possible with my life?” For me that ultimately led to going down this path. Then when the seminary opened, it was so obvious that I was almost completely humbled because quite frankly it required very little sacrifice. There were sacrifices on my family’s part and my wife worked more hours taking care of the family, but to make this kind of transition, all of the pieces were there.

There was always that option to say, “We are pulling up roots and moving to Princeton and we are going to live in a dorm with two little girls,” but that was way, way too disruptive. Everybody has their own equation, I think, but for me it is the natural sum of everything that has been made possible for me by others and my opportunity to apply it.

Avocationist: If you look back over your life, of all the jobs you have done, which one was your favorite at the time you were doing it?

John: That is a great way to ask that question. The answer is every one of them, at the time I was doing them. There was a pinnacle for each one. I can remember a time in journalism where it was just right. I was comfortable in the role, I had enough perspective to appreciate it and I loved it and then that sort of trailed off. The peak period at the bank probably lasted longer because it was so fun and so completely engaging for so many years that it was the best job I had ever had. And then the issues management job was the best job I could ever imagine, and now; I have not done this ministry work full-time, but I have done it enough on the side to know that it is the best job I could have ever asked for and I hope it feeds me that way from here on out. I can’t single out one thing. Part of that—the very fact that I can’t remember a year or a day that I didn’t say, “It doesn’t get any better than this"— is another reason for just the enormous gratitude I feel, because none of this is my doing. That creates a sense of obligation in me. And reminds me that I have had a very privileged path.

Avocationist: John, were there any transitions in your career that were particularly difficult?

John: The most difficult was probably the time when I realized that I probably needed to think about life after the bank. It had been so intoxicating and so fulfilling and I could have remained there for the rest of my career. I had absolute respect for the company and its management, but in a sense I was so focused in my 30’s, that I don’t know that I was truly plumbing the depths of my being and asking myself the hard questions. Those kind of built up and there was a one- or two-year period where I was groping again about what comes next, and that is hard, especially when you have obligations.

Avocationist: Do you think most of us go through those periods?

John: There are some folks that just cruise right through adulthood and never wrestle with those questions, and God bless them. There is liberation in that, but for many, for whatever reason, coming to grips with the fact that I might need to recreate myself was jarring. But again, I had a pretty gentle environment in which to do that because the bank continued to be supportive and encouraging. I can’t say that I was walking around unhappy but internally I was struggling with the questions. Other than that, it was transitional from newspapering to one application in banking and then a different career in banking. Those were kind of logical progressions, so it took some intentionality in thinking, “What am I best at and where are my rough edges?” but it was not from AC to DC.

Avocationist: You have talked about a number of people in your life that have been particularly helpful, Mr. McColl and Joe Martin being two. Were there other folks who came along at key moments during your decision-making process?

John: Constantly – like the person I had breakfast with an hour ago. Thinking back, I grew up in Atlanta and I was around people who had positions of influence and power and success and prosperity, so I had a front row seat to see how people handle that. I was never without the opportunity to see what people who were very successful did with their lives. Which ones gave back and which ones, for whatever reason, didn’t. I think all of that was subconscious. It wasn’t like when I was ten or fifteen or eighteen that I was some methodological student of leadership, but all of that was sinking into my pores.

When I got out of college I came to a city [Charlotte] where there was sort of this social contract that you could network with anybody you wanted to. I did meet people at church and in the community and I always wanted to be active. My way of being involved in the community when I was a newspaper reporter was to be very involved in non-profits. There again, in Charlotte the Presbyterian Churches are very connectional so I met lots and lots of people. In addition to Mr. McColl and Joe Martin there is Doug Oldenburg, who was a senior pastor of Covenant church and ran the seminary and then was elected to the top office of the Presbyterian Church nationally. He has been an influence. And people like you who were my peers. I saw them asking these same questions, and that was a subtle encouragement that “This isn’t crazy.”

Avocationist: It’s really not. Actually, what I'm finding out is that it is really quite normal.

John: There is some unspoken community out there in the catacombs finding each other. There were highly visible people who made time for me and were generous to me beyond anything that I could ever ask for or expected, and then the average Joe’s who said, “You know what? I have some of those same questions, too.” It is sort of a communion of saints.

Avocationist: Based on what you have learned and experienced, what advice would you give to people who are figuring out what to do next with their lives?

John: Think long-term. Understand that life has its stages. In Ecclesiastes it is written, “There is a season for everything," so be content with what you are doing, but always have your eye on the horizon. Be very intentional in the moment of saying, “What am I learning? How am I growing? Am I stagnating? Am I around people who are stretching me? Am I stretching myself?” Figure out how can I put these phases together in a logical progression and never, ever, ever forget joy. A book that everybody’s heard about, “What Color is Your Parachute?" has a concept of a fundamental, simple idea: ask yourself "What is my number?” or “Am I tied forever to what I am doing or can I do something else?”

You have to have the courage and you have to have faith—and I can't not bring my faith to it—to take that step. And if you have faith, that makes it a whole lot easier. It might look very precarious in the short term, but I think the scripture tells us over and over again that there is a plan and we just need to listen for it.

Avocationist: I think a lot of it is just you have to be okay with what it is, too. Maybe part of it is just accepting that there is a plan, that you are a certain thing and maybe it is different than what you thought you ought to be. It doesn’t go away.

John: It is a process of very intentional listening and having humility. One of the best lines I heard when I was in school, “If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans,” because we are not in control. If we are humble enough to listen and say, “Thy will be done,” things become clearer . Even if we don’t have a faith context like that, but ask that question of yourself in whatever spiritual framework you have.

Sometimes I think subconsciously we want to impose a path that we have laid out. By 30 I am going to be here and by 35 I am going to be there and by 40…, but it doesn’t work that way. And to your point earlier, sometimes you really have to take a little bit of a grain of humility and say, I'm okay if people think that I am not going to be a rock star right now, or if my neighbor looks down his nose at me because I am not the most powerful guy, or whatever. Because that is just at that moment and you are on a path to somewhere else. You are always on a path to somewhere else, if that makes any sense.

Avocationist: It makes a lot of sense, and I totally agree. It is really all through the gospel if you look at it. “Why birds don’t worry; they have plenty to eat; why do you worry?”

John: Yes, and that takes courage and strength and I am not saying that I always have it. I credit my wife with having terrific courage and faith because she never intended to marry a pastor and she has demonstrated that to me because there are adjustments to be made.

Avocationist: Do you have any regrets?

John: That is such a good question. I think where I have tried to discern a path for me personally, it has indirectly and sometimes very directly had implications for my family. So I don’t know if they are regrets so much as sort of a deep awareness that there is a tension between trying to find your path as an individual, what are you put on earth to do at any given stage in your life, and the ramifications that has for those around you. You've got to always try to figure out, “How do I reconcile those?” At times I know I have been absent and sometimes I know I have put hardships on my wife and I have been away from my little girls more hours in a week than I would prefer, and I don’t know now to reconcile that right now.

"Whatever your brass ring is, if you are going to reach for it, sometimes that means leaning away from those who are closest to you."

Whatever your brass ring is, if you are going to reach for it, sometimes that means leaning away from those who are closest to you. I don’t have an answer for that. How do you say, “What is the very best I can be? What is the greatest that I can stretch?" without that having implications on those around me who are impacted?

I don’t know if it is a regret because I feel enormously blessed beyond anything that I could ever ask for or deserve, but I guess I am just keenly aware of the implications for others. I just pray that they are held by the same strong arms that I feel held by.

Avocationist: Can I answer it for you based on what we have talked about? I think that obviously your family is very important to you and your faith is very important to you and giving back is important to you. You have talked about three areas and I think of you that way.

John: You too. I love the idea of this service you are doing for others, because it is a bit of an underground society.

Avocationist: Yes, and I think it is hard to find people to talk to about it. The internet is creating new opportunities to have a big impact just by building a very focused website.

John: Part of it is that these are courageous conversations. For whatever reason, our society doesn’t give permission to ask these questions out loud. Or even, as a rising Senior Vice President of a bank to admit that I have these questions. For whatever reason, I think our society doesn’t say to that man or that woman, “It’s okay.”

"They might want to go into social work, or back to medical school or some other direction. They need to know that that is not admitting defeat."

There are many people asking themselves the same questions. They might want to go into social work, or back to medical school or some other direction. They need to know that that is not admitting defeat. For whatever reason our external public society doesn’t always smile on that, and it is a shame.

Avocationist: Cultures in organizations and society can be so overwhelming and powerful. It can be so dominant that it kind of snuffs out the “small voice” that’s speaking to you.

John: Yes; and we as a culture don’t allow much quiet and peace and solitude. Congratulations to you for doing this. I know it will change people’s paths in a positive way.

Avocationist: Thanks a lot, John. It was great.

“Even the stuff that really felt lousy served some purpose.”

This is the fourth part of our five-part interview. Find out more about Angelina and Vocationing at www.themobiuscompany.com

Read the interview:

Avocationist:What else influenced your early career choices?

Angelina: In the early part of my career I defined myself by my career. If you define yourself by your career then you put restrictions on yourself when you look for a new career. You say, “I’ve got to make so much money. I’ve got to have this title. I’ve got to work for this kind of company”. As I have gotten older and I’ve made so many career transitions, and, with a little bit of wisdom that comes with age, I’ve paid more attention to the fact that I am not what I do. I’m who I am. I mean, my personality, the definition of who I am is who I am, not what I do.

“I have a career ... but that’s not the definition of me.”

I have a career and I do other activities, but that’s not the definition of me. The definition of me is who I am, regardless of the career. That has really freed me to look very differently at all of the possibilities of what I want to do.

Avocationist: That's a big shift. When did you get to that point?

Angelina: Oh, I would say probably about four or five years ago. It really was almost like an epiphany.

Avocationist: Do you remember a particular time when you kind of realized that, or did it grow over time?

Angelina: Well, it grew over time, but the first time I ever realized it was absolutely crystal clear to me. At the time, I was not working. We had adopted a dog. I used to meet this little girl every morning when I walked the dog. One day I met the little girl at a grocery store and she looked at me and she said, “Oh aren’t you Cassie’s mommy?” I just broke down, got hysterical crying in the store. I explained to this little seven year old, “No, I’m a former vice president. No, I’m a former executive”. I just kind of rattled off my resume to her because it occurred to me that that’s who I thought I was and how dare she think I’m some dog’s mother. I was more important than that.

It was my first real insight in to, “Wait a minute. You’re getting stuff confused here”.

Avocationist: When was that?

Angelina: Well, the really interesting thing is I got it confused two or three more times since that first happened and that was in 1991.

I mean we’ve got 15 years worth of continuing to be confused. I would only say it’s in the last four or five years I went, “Oh, okay, wait a minute. I think I’m getting it now”.

Avocationist: This latest time you got it. Do you remember a particular event around that or was it more just a realization?

Angelina: I think it was just more a realization. I think something just comes back around so many times until you go, “Oh, okay. Oh, okay”.

Avocationist: Talk about what it was like from going to being a teacher to being a computer programmer, versus what it was like during your latest transition.

Angelina: The first time I made the transition from teacher to computer programmer. It was very interesting because I went from working with a lot of people and teaching five or six classes a day with 30 kids. I was constantly “on”. I went from being “on”, to being a computer programmer, sitting at a desk and doing my own things. One of the things that I found very interesting was, one of my bosses said to me early on, “You know this is going to be a challenge because we’ve got a second project for you. During the day we need you to be working on both of them. Is that going to be difficult?” I just said, "every 44 minutes, 40 new people used to show up in my room". I said, “You’re apologizing because I got to work on two projects? This is going to be very easy”. That was a very interesting kind of transition. What was expected of me in one case and what was expected of me in the other case. The other thing I found was because I’m an extrovert and I changed to work that was much more on my own, I had to develop a much richer social life.

Avocationist: So you found a way to compensate for the lack of human contact at work.

Angelina: Yes, because I didn’t have my day full of people. The other thing I discovered was that it was interesting because I look back on it when it was happening and realized that teaching was so emotionally satisfying. The programming, by contrast, was so intellectual satisfying. Really, I just saw the dichotomy and went, “Whoa, how interesting is that”.

I think the second thing is probably, as all of us have, just certain really challenges in life. Whether they are physical or mental or emotional or family. Whatever they are. I think those challenges cause you to think different about yourself and the world.

Avocationist: What else has impacted you?

Angelina: I have a meditative, prayer practice. I find that stillness is really just the single best teacher in the world. In stillness, you know who you are, you know who God is, you figure it out. We’re a culture that’s addicted to speed and it's not in speed it's in quiet, it's in stillness, it's in peace. I’ve had the good fortune of being blessed with a number of very, very good spiritual teachers who smack me aside of the head when I’m like crazy. More importantly, I have a husband who’ll smack me across the side of the head when I’m out of control.

Avocationist: Yes. You talked about challenges that we all have in lives, were there any in your particular life that caused big changes for you, or big turning points?

Angelina: Probably one of my biggest turning points was a divorce. That was a significant turning point. Having gone through a divorce when I was in the middle of a career transition.

Avocationist: Oh wow.

Angelina: Another big challenge was when my ex-husband eventually passed away and died of AIDS when I was in another career transition. The divorce was one of them. Death was another one, that I would say was a huge challenge. I guess the other thing I’d say is to some extent kind of crisis of the soul is a challenge I think all of us face.

Avocationist: What do you mean by that?

Angelina: What is meaningful, what’s not meaningful? Why is this happening? What is it all? That hit me profoundly. I didn’t change careers but the jolt that happens when something like a 9-11, when the world has that kind of impact.

They’re the things that just kind of cause you to stop and say, “Okay. What am I taking seriously here? What am I think I’m doing? How do I want to spend my time?”

Avocationist: Do you have any regrets?

Angelina: This is probably the strangest thing about me. Compared to everybody else I know. I have none.

It's strange. But I really have this belief, which again is slightly off center, a little different. I have this belief that we invite everything in to our lives. We invite it in to our lives because there’s this nugget. There’s this gem. There’s this pearl. In the middle of whatever we’ve just invited. It's there for a reason. It's usually to grow and to learn and so I don’t have any regrets. Even the stuff that really felt lousy served some purpose.

I don’t think I’d be where I am had I not had each one of those experiences. It's very strange, but I really have lead a life of no regrets.

Avocationist: That’s wonderful.

Angelina: Yeah, it is.

There was a thing my grandfather used to say, “God wrote straight with a crooked line”. When I left my career on Wall Street to get into school reform, I wasn’t working for a couple of months. It was during that time that my ex-husband passed away from AIDS. In hindsight, I looked back on it and said, “Had I been working, I wouldn’t have been able to spend any time with him. I wouldn’t have been able to go visit him.” One of the things that’s just very interesting to me is when people are in transition in careers, its almost like there’s time in here for something. If you’re not paying attention, you’re going to miss it. That opportunity, that blank piece of time, that empty piece of space, is there for a reason. Yes, you need to be looking for the next job, but don’t ignore the fact that maybe during that piece of time, you were supposed to spend more time with somebody. Or you were supposed to build something. Or you were supposed to visit somebody. It’s like those opportunities show up and they happen when you have this chunk of time, and if you had your job you never would have done it.

It’s like there’s this gift in the middle of all that stuff and you don’t expect it.

In the next segment, Angelina offers her advice on matching up your abilities with your career.

“Having the corner office. Having the salary. Then saying, ‘Oh God, is this really all that there is?’”

This is the third of our five-part interview. Find out more about Angelina and Vocationing at www.themobiuscompany.com

Read the interview:

Avocationist: Tell me about your other job transitions.

Angelina: The second transition was from computer programming to accounting. Really that transition happened because when I was the computer programmer for the organization I worked with, I got very involved in the accounting function. That happened very naturally because I was already there.

Avocationist: Were there other difficult changes?

Angelina: The second hardest career transition was probably when I left corporate America and went to work for the small company before I went in to business for myself.

Avocationist: Tell me about that.

Angelina: I took a job really as a director of business development as a salesperson. That was very strange. It was like, “Oh my God, I’m not going to get a regular pay check. I’m going to have to earn my own money”.

Avocationist: How did you deal with that?

Angelina: I thought, “Okay. I’ve made all these other career transitions. Why not try this one”. As I said, I am not terribly risk averse when it comes to career transitions. Much of my life I’m risk averse. With careers I’ve always felt like, “Well, I could always do something else”.

Avocationist: How did you decide to leave corporate America?

Angelina: As I remember, I left corporate America after I had a position of Senior Vice President and Director of Infrastructure. I had all of the corporate functions reporting to me either dotted-line or direct. It was a case having been recruited to Charlotte and having the window corner office, having the salary. Then saying, “Oh God, is this really all that there is?” I hate to say it because it sounds like a terrible cliché.

Avocationist: How old were you then?

Angelina: I was in my mid-40’s and did the equivalent of, “Dear God, there has to be more than this”.

I felt really just being very confused about there really has to be more than this. That’s when I said, “Okay, let me go out and try to figure out what more there could be”. That’s when I did some of the self-assessment tools. It really was, I would say, my values catching up with me to say, “Okay, so now I’ve made a lot of money. Okay, so now I have this important title. Okay”. And then saying, “Wait a minute. Is that who I am?” Thinking, that’s not who I am, there’s got to be something different.

Avocationist: Did you go to the Highlands Program? Is that how you hooked up with those guys at that point?

Angelina: Yes. I actually went. I took the Highlands Program.

Avocationist: How did that help you?

Angelina: Their abilities battery said that one of the things that I would excel in was selling. I had never had a sales job in my life. I basically said to them "either you believe your test or you don’t".

Avocationist: That’s a good one.

Angelina: I said, if you believe your test, then you hire me as your Director of Business Development. If you don’t believe your test, you say to me, “well you don’t have any sales experience Angelina”. By the time I left Highlands the franchise that I worked for was one of the highest revenue generators in the country. That test was right, I’m very good at sales.

Avocationist: Yes. They should have known that by how you asked for that job.

Angelina: Yeah, I basically showed them my test scores and said, “Look it says the top five things I do best is sell”.

Another point about me is that I have a tendency to leave careers before I hate them. It's almost like a fear. If I do this a little bit longer, I’m not going to like it anymore.

Avocationist: That's interesting because I don't think most people do that.

Angelina: I leave it just a little sooner, rather than later. I work with a lot of people in the coaching work who are in career transition.

I think people’s biggest complaint is they waited too long. They knew they should get out, a year ago, and they hate it now. It’s interesting, because I’ve always erred on the other way. I usually get out a year too soon because I’m afraid I’m going to hate it. And I don't want to hate it.

Avocationist: How did you pick computer programming?

Angelina: Well, again, it was intellectually - it looked very challenging to me. It was in the mid-70’s. Most of my life, I’ve been very left-brain. I’ve been very logical and very analytical. It was in the 70’s, and the whole computer industry was really starting to explode. I just took an introductory class in it and really just loved it. It very much appealed to that very logical, analytical side. I have an undergraduate minor in mathematics and it just really appealed to the logical stuff in me. I said, “Oh, this could be interesting”, because it’s this up and coming field. I have a tendency like nascent industries. I like to show up in an industry when it’s first starting and so there aren’t a whole lot of rules. There’s a whole lot of opportunities. It’s the area of my life that I am very much a risk taker. I think that’s the other really interesting thing about career transition. I think people are afraid that if they find a job and they don’t like it, “Oh my God, it’s the end of the world”. It’s like, “Well, no. If you take a job and you don’t like it, go find another one”. It may not happen easily, and in today’s economy it’s especially hard. But, you can go about finding the other one.

Avocationist: How did your transition to computer programming happen?

Angelina: That career transition I made by going back to school. I’ve made other career transitions where I have not gone back to school, but I’ve actually done pro bono work for organizations. Most people will say, “How do you get from one career to the next?”

Avocationist: Yes - that's a big challenge for many people.

Angelina: If you want to radically change, number one I’ve gone back to school. The other way I’ve done it is to provide pro bono services in the industry where I’m interested in going. Or in a field where I’m interested in going. When I wanted to get into school reform, I had been working on Wall Street. I found an organization that needed some consulting services and I offered them pro bono consulting services, but they were in the school reform business.

They were in school reform. They wanted some computer consulting services. And, I was willing to give them computer consulting services, free, because it gave me an opportunity to network in this area of school reform. I wound up giving pro bono services to three different organizations and wound up with three job offers to make the career transition. The pro bono work gave me the opportunity to meeting with people in the industry and learn the language of the industry.

The other thing I have found very useful in making career transitions is attending a whole bunch of seminars and conferences. It wasn’t really school. I didn’t get a new degree. I found, and this is when I got in to coaching, I went to the International Coach Federation Conference. Then I took a couple of classes. I did a couple of networking events. Again, I’m usually somebody who goes and does something as a way to make a career transition.

Avocationist: Yeah. You said you’ve mostly gotten in to these new fields. How do you find out about them? Is it something that you go look for? Or do you usually find it just occurring to you, or do you run across it?

Angelina: I’m somebody who pays attention to trends. One of the careers I think I should have someday is to figure out how to get paid money for the fact that I can spot trends. I don’t know if anybody would pay me for that.

When I first got in to coaching and I went to the International Coaching Federation Conference. I think there were maybe 200 people at the conference. Now everybody and his brother has a coach.

Avocationist: Yeah. Exactly.

Angelina: Its like, when I first started doing it, people would say to me, “What’s a coach? How did you find out about that?” It’s like, “Okay, this sounds like brand new”.

In the next segment, Angelina talks about how even the "stuff that felt lousy" had a purpose.