Note: In the last post, I introduced the idea of Going Pro without Quitting Your Day Job. In this second part, I cover the benefits. Part 3 will show how you can Go Pro.
--
My palms were sweaty and my voice was about two octaves higher than normal as I dialed the phone. I was just hoping that I wouldn’t sound like a total idiot.

I had landed the first big interview for my new website Avocationist.com. In a few minutes I’d be talking to an author who had sold more than 2 million books. He was someone I had watched on TV. His financial advice had helped my wife and me learn how to save for retirement. And he had agreed to talk to me!

His phone rang. And rang. And rang.

And then I got his voicemail…

Gulp. “HeyDaveIt’sAllanBaconI’mcallingforourinterview.”

Now I had to wait for him – would he call? And – oh crap – I can’t record the interview if I don’t call him from my skype account!

Welcome to the world of Going Pro - moments of panic followed by intense learning and massive satisfaction…

What did I get from this experience? Flash forward to an hour later.

The interview was safely recorded. And even though I had been nervous and still had a lot to learn, I realized that I had broken through some invisible barrier I had previously created.

After this experience with Dave, I began to believe that I could interview anyone – maybe not that day or the next, but I could see myself getting there.

But that was just the first of many other benefits. Here are some of the others:

Just by taking action, I opened up other opportunities.

The interview with Dave wasn’t some bold move on my part. It really came about through some unwarranted cockiness on my part. After I finished an interview with one of my friends, I was feeling good, so I started started thinking big about who I might approach.

Dave’s book was on my bookshelf, so I Googled him to see what he was up to. I found out that his career had taken some surprising and unusual turns since I had read the book. I emailed him on a lark to see if he would talk with me.

Ten minutes later, he responded by email: “sure.”

I was stuck.

I have experienced a momentum that ramps up if you let it. Call it synchronicity, purpose or a higher calling, but I got pulled to do something that I would never have believed that I could do (and it went fine).

My skills increased very quickly.

From my first to my second to my third interview, each one got easier to do. I was more comfortable and less nervous and more able to go with the natural flow of the conversation.

I loved parts of it – even some that I didn’t know about.

I loved doing the interviews. I guess it shouldn’t have been a surprise but there was a good reason that I was interested in interviewing people – it felt a lot like what I did all the time when I met people. Going Pro just helped me to consciously start to build some additional skills on top of what I already had been practicing my whole life.

I hated parts of it – even some that I didn’t know about.

One of the biggest lessons of Going Pro is that you can’t skip any of the required steps.

One of these was transcription. I loved doing the interviews, but hated dealing with them afterwards. First I tried for an automated system – until I found out they don’t exist yet. Then I found out about elance.com and hired a few transcriptionists. I ended up with a great partner (who ended up transcribing my entire book).

You will quickly find that some parts you will like, some you won’t mind, and some you will need to work around.

Going Pro is a starting point, not a destination.

Going Pro doesn’t mean that you will necessarily stay with what you started with.

Some things you will try just won’t work. My original idea for the website was to publish the full interviews in a Q&A format. I assumed that others would be interested in getting to “meet” these cool people I was talking to. But what I discovered was that people really were looking for me to distill down what I had learned for them.

That led to writing which led to a book and talks and this post.

Going Pro is a necessary stepping stone to things you will love that you can’t even imagine now.

That interview with Dave was also a watershed event for me. It was the first time I was exposed to the business of writing and speaking. A big part of our interview was on how he developed and grew his business. It planted a seed in my mind that would grow and morph into what I’m doing now. But I could never have gone straight from where I was to where I am now without this step of Going Pro.

Going Pro isn’t all about work.

I began to realize that the people I was interviewed really enjoyed the experience, too. They were learning about their own lives in the process of talking with me about them. My interviews were a kind of gift to the people I was talking to.

And I was creating new friendships. Since I started the site, I have met several of my interviewees after our initial phone calls. I even had dinner in California with one of my Avocationists and his wife. I’m still in touch with most of them. It’s been a great way to expand my experience to include a greater variety of people.

I could fit in a lot around my job if I was patient and willing to be creative.

It was much easier than I thought to work in my interviews. It took planning. It also took patience to realize that sometimes the website would need to be dropped for a couple of weeks while I was busy with work or family. But I was having enough fun and positive feedback from the experience to keep plugging away at it.

How can you Go Pro? In Part 3 of this series, I’ll present the 3 essential parts of Going Pro and give some ideas about how you can get started.

Photo courtesy thorinside via flickr.com

Admit it. You’ve got a secret love.

You sketch shoe designs during meetings. You build toy trains in your basement. You sing arias in the shower.

You probably don’t tell too many people about your secret love.

Why not?

• “I’m not good enough yet.”
• “No one would care.”
• “I can’t make money doing it, so why bother.”
• “I’ll get to that after I’ve made my money and have more time.”

What if I told you that you are good enough, you can easily find people who care, you can make money and that you have plenty of time right now?

All you have to do is Go Pro.

In this post, I’m going to explain the process of “Going Pro” and how it is simpler and more powerful than you think. In the next 2 posts I’ll talk more about the benefits and the how-to for taking your secret love public.

What does it take to Go Pro?

If you are an athlete, it means accepting sponsorships and prize money. Basically, it means that you are getting paid to do what you love to do.

So to Go Pro, you only need 3 elements:

1. You
2. Your project
3. A customer or audience

You’ve got number 1 covered. (Congratulations!)

Now, what kind of project could you do? What does Going Pro look like?

Kate's First Gallery Show

It can start really simply. When my daughter Kate was 7, she had her first gallery show of paintings.

The gallery was our house and the show took place on Thanksgiving when we were hosting lots of out of town guests. She pulled together her favorite paintings and mounted them. We put them on the walls around the house.

I interviewed her and typed up her “Artist’s Statement” and put it up with a photo I had taken of her.

When everyone arrived, we had wine and cheese and the show began. She gave a brief talk about her art and inspirations. By the end, she got several offers.

Kate had Gone Pro.

Was she ready for New York? Not yet. But she knew more about what people liked. She knew more about putting together a portfolio. She had practice talking about her work in front of a group. She had experience now.

The next time she would be better.

So, what’s your goal for your secret love?

If you had all the money you would need and could focus on your love, what would you do?

Take that as the starting point for figuring out your project. (And if you need help finding your love, watch for an upcoming post on Life Experiments.)

What’s the easiest, safest way you can think of to make a “starter” version of your long-term goal? What would a 7-year-old do?

Next time I’ll talk about how I started this blog and what I learned about the benefits of Going Pro.

In the meantime, comment below with your thoughts and questions. How can you Go Pro? What's your secret love?

Photo courtesy Gianmaria Veronese

Have you completed employee reviews in the last month? Did it feel like a good use of your time? Did you feel like you were really building value in your company or did you feel like you were checking off a box on someone else’s cover-my-butt list?

Be honest.

When your Outlook calendar is completely colored in and you don’t know what half of the meetings are, you should probably start to think about giving yourself a demotion.

I’ve been inspired reading Seth Godin’s new book “Linchpin” which launches today. (Buy it here. I love the book because you can dive in anywhere and pick up some uncomfortably challenging advice.)

In the spirit of Seth's book, I offer my favorite way to free up time while making a bigger impact at work...

One of Seth’s most uncomfortable sections (for those of you in corporate jobs) is on the commoditization of white-collar jobs. If you are just checking off other people’s boxes you are putting yourself at unnecessary risk of becoming just like any other middle manager. Which means that you can be replaced with any other middle manager.

Instead, Seth challenges each of us to become a Linchpin:

The linchpin is an individual who can walk into chaos and create order, someone who can invent, connect, create and make things happen. Every worthwhile institution has indispensable people who make differences like these.

If you are sitting in someone else’s meetings all week you aren’t becoming indispensable.

You are in a career holding pattern at best and in danger of a career death spiral at worst.

Working more hours will just make it harder for you to make a big contribution. You need a way to focus your efforts on something that will challenge you and bring real value to your company, without requiring another 30 hours of meetings each week.

Here’s my radical suggestion for creating more time and flexibility in your job: give yourself a demotion from management to a position where you can directly make a strategic contribution. I call this “strategic downshifting”.

Just like downshifting in a car, this gives you more power and control. It also makes your engine rev higher and gives you faster acceleration. That is to say, you can create a place where you can be excited about your work again.

I’ve done this three times in my career and I know of dozens of others who have had similar experiences. There are several factors to a successful downshift:

• Find a place where you are excited and can see new possibilities

After we sold a company where I was VP of Sales & Marketing, I was excited about applying our new parent company’s licensing business model to our old industry. I knew it was a chance to influence a significant change in the way optics were sold for cell phone cameras. But I couldn’t do it from my management role. Instead, I took responsibility for leading the business development efforts by myself with no team.

• Look at previous jobs to find great launching pads

Bob got passed over for a promotion early in his career at GE. Instead of continuing to press for a management role, he focused his productivity on inventing new products. He had a happy, sane 40 year career there and was awarded over 50 patents. (The guy who beat him out for the management job was let go 6 months later in a restructuring effort).

• Build a new constituency to support your efforts

Work with your management to ensure a graceful transition. Even more importantly, make sure that you have support from people excited about what you will be doing in your new (old) role. They can help smooth over any resistance you encounter.

• Watch out for the pull back into management

Traditional advice says that taking a step backwards on the career ladder means that you are done for. This is exactly the opposite of my experience. I have found that the wisdom and passion you bring to a downshifted role tends to bring results and recognition. My shift to a direct sales role netted me a bonus within 6 months.

Did you like this post? You should sign up for my free monthly newsletter:

In the first excerpt from our interview, Pam explains how she started the blog and gives insights into how she has successfully balanced the practical parts of her life with her passion for helping budding entrepreneurs.

Check out what I learned at a No Doubt concert this weekend - how to know when you have outgrown your work.

Watch until the end for an invitation to a series of classes I'm offering (you can also get more information here).

Want to do something different, but can't figure out what it is? Or how to do more meaningful work without jeopardizing your lifestyle?

Join me for a special tele-class this Wednesday night, June 10th at 5pm ET: Don't wait to test-drive your dreams (How to start now without quitting your job).

It's free for my newsletter subscribers.

This tele-class is part of a series I'm offering to take you from "I don't know what I want to be when I grow up" to "I would never have been able to envision how rich my life is now."

Sign up now because there are a limited number of spots left. I'll email you more details and a link to the recording of our first tele-class: "How to find a job as fun as your life was as a kid."

Here's what you need to do:

1. Click here to sign up
2. Sign up for my newsletter (it's free, too)

You can get more details and check out the whole list of upcoming classes here.

On my first trip to Hong Kong, I learned that they can be great times to try out new interests - the first step towards developing your calling.

Tom met a woman once who came close, but when every date was compared to that top 10 ideal, how could any real-life relationship survive? (By the way, he's pushing 40 now and is still single.)

I think that Tom had it all backwards.

Tom was working too hard on having everything figured out up front, and not enough time getting out there and being open to the spark he would feel when he met someone who was a good fit for him. That feeling of attraction would be a much more accurate indicator of a good match than any 10 or 100 or 1000 item list Tom could come up with.

And his list kept Tom from starting relationships that could have taught him the true way long-term couples stay together: It's not because they are perfect matches, it's because they have committed to the relationship.

They've committed to something bigger than just their own "Top 10 lists" of needs.

I'm telling you this because I made my own "Tom list" - only I wasn't looking for the Perfect Girl, I was looking for the Perfect Job.

And I didn't have any more success with my list than Tom did with his.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sign up for my newsletter and get the full article, plus new topics each month:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even though I knew how self-defeating this "Tom's Top 10" approach was in relationships, I went through much of my career thinking that the perfect job was not only achievable, but that it was the only way to have a career that was both meaningful and enjoyable.

And I had figured out the perfect route to the perfect job:

All I needed was a perfect understanding of myself...

E-S-F J-Oh-My

ESFJ, "mid D, high I, low S, low C", StrengthsFinder "Individualization and Ideation Themes".

Do any of these sound familiar? They are "types" - the outputs of career tests. I have a thick binder at home that has the results of all of the tests I've taken over the years.

They are fun to do. I always come away feeling better about myself because they write the "type" descriptions in ways that emphasize the positive. Everyone ends up with a type description like the fortune cookie I've gotten a few times: "You are talented in many ways". Or the Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes envelopes: "Congratulations, you are a winner!"

The nice thing about all of these tests was that they were easy. Not much work for me: I just wrote the check, took the test and waited for the debriefing afterwards.

But as I kept asking "What do I do with these results?", I started to realize something important - these tests aren't really designed to help you identify your ideal work - they are a short-cut to help career counselors get a quick read on you. And, they provide a standardized way for them to give advice "in categories".

This isn't a bad thing, but it started to undermine the credibility of this "perfect job" idea that I had.

And, as I learned more about myself, I realized that I was just adding more and more requirements to my list.

Like Tom with his idea of the perfect girl, I was bordering on the ridiculous because no company or job was going to be able to provide this complex mix of needs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get the rest of the article, plus a free subscription to my monthly newsletter:

Photo courtesy woodleywonderworks

Nick Williams’ career as an author began in 1999 with the release of his first book The Work We Were Born To Do and he has recently started a new online community called the Inspired Entrepreneur.

Nick began his working life selling computers in London. In the midst of this successful career, he found himself sitting on a beach in Antigua asking “is it worth it?”.

In this first of a two-part interview, Nick talks about his “A-ha!” moment and the steps he took to begin changing his career.

Read on to find Nick’s thoughts on:

1. How to start a change while working
2. How to face internal resistance to change
3. How to be an entrepreneur without being a jerk

Read the full interview:

Avocationist: Tell me what you do for a living.

Nick: I suppose I would call myself a renaissance soul because there is not just one thing I do. I coach people, give talks, run workshops, and do broadcasting. I’m a writer and I create information products about helping people find what they really love to do. I have created a whole little business around it. That seems to be my area of specialty.

Avocationist: Could you tell me a little bit about how you got to where you are right now?

Nick: In the UK I followed a fairly conventional educational and career path. I did all my exams and then I completed a degree at University in business studies. It was my way of delaying the decision of what to do with the rest of my life. So in my early 20’s I went into sales and marketing for a few years and had 3 different jobs doing varying aspects of sales and marketing. The last one was working for a big company called Digital selling computers to Japanese banks in the city of London. By my late 20’s I started to realize that although I had enjoyed it, I did not enjoy it anymore. On the surface I was reasonably successful, but in a deeper emotional and spiritual level, I was very unhappy. It just led me to question a lot of things in my own life. Often we find out what we want to do by being unhappy in what we are doing. So that was my route, experiencing frustration and unhappiness.

Avocationist: Was there any particular event or one time when you realized “Wow; I have to make a change…” or did that occur over time?

Nick: I had two “Road to Damascus” moments. The first was in my second job. I had actually done very well and had very high sales, so they sent me to Antigua for a week. It was wonderful. I was on the beach in Antigua drinking a Red Stripe beer. I was in paradise, but in my own mind, I wasn’t in paradise at all. I was in hell because I was thinking, “I don’t really want to go back there. If this is what success is about, it is lovely but… I had to pay such a high price for it all. Is it worth it?” So that was one time that I thought, “I know I can’t carry on with this for too much longer.” However, it was probably about three to four years before I actually did leave.

“This guy is living on the streets and he is telling me to cheer up”

Then when I was back in London I had moved to another job in sales and marketing and I specifically remember the place in London. If you ever get to London there is a place called The Embankment which is down by the River Thames. My office wasn’t too far away from there. I took some time there one day because at that moment I was just so fed up with being in the office. I had to get out of there and decided that I needed to go for a walk. So I went down for a walk on the Embankment and I suddenly heard this voice call out to me. Somebody said to me, “Cheer up, mate.” I was obviously looking miserable and unhappy, but when I turned around, it was a homeless guy telling me to cheer up. I thought, “This guy is living on the streets telling me to cheer up. I’m a guy with a great job, a BMW, and a nice flat and he is telling me to cheer up. There is something not right here.” That was the other time when I thought, “Hang on. Something is not right with me and my life here.”

Avocationist: So how did you go about making a change at that point?

Nick: My first venture was into my own kind of counseling and a bit of therapy for myself. That was my inroad to personal change. I suppose many people, once they go to counseling or therapy, they think, “Maybe I will become a counselor or become a therapist.” I suppose I went down that route a bit. I thought I would love to share with other people what I had learned and what had been helpful to me, but I don’t think I really wanted to be a counselor or a therapist. I knew I wanted to become somebody who could help other people. Even in the days of selling computers, I realized that there was a part of me that loved helping other people. I never grew out of that desire to help others and so found a way of curving that into my living. I paid for it myself.

Avocationist: What did you do first once you realized that? How did you get started helping people?

Nick: The first area I became immersed in, which I found most helpful, was an area called transactional analysis; TA. There was a woman I found out about called Julie Hay. She helped people to use transactional analysis in an organizational context. So I did some training with her, and she would help me find a day or two of work. I would disappear from my job one day and reappear at the London Bureau of Bromley running a day of time-management training using TA. The next day I would jump back to my job as a computer salesman.

“I realized that when I was doing these presentations, I really loved it”

But I realized that when I was doing these presentations, I really loved it and it really gave me an experience of what it was like to present and share ideas, and I thought, “Yes; I really love doing this. If I could put this at the center of my life, I would like to do this.” So I got a taste of it, but I didn’t really have a plan. All I knew is that I needed to follow my heart because it was getting too painful not to.

“Looking back on it, I am probably embarrassed by how many mistakes I made, but luckily I didn’t dwell on it at the time”

Eventually I quit my job and followed my heart. I have probably made so many mistakes, but gradually became clearer about how to do it. I do not come from any kind of entrepreneurial background and I had no idea how to run my own business, let alone run a business that had deep meaning to me. So looking back on it, I am probably embarrassed by how many mistakes I made, but luckily I didn’t dwell on it at the time and I learned to swim. I have done quite well since then, in the long, long journey.

Avocationist: Did you just quit your job and start your own business, or did you kind of work into it?

Nick: A little bit. I had done a few tasters while I was still employed, but I didn’t really have a business plan. The concept that I know of now is the called “The Shadow Artist”. I don’t know if you have heard of, have you?

Avocationist: No I have not.

Nick: It is in one of Julia Cameron’s books. She wrote a book called The Artist’s Way, and it is a concept in her book. One of the things I did when I left my job was to start promoting other people who were more advanced in the world of personal development than I was. It was a good thing because it helped me to get a bit of profile and to make connections. Looking back on it, I realize it was also a great way of hiding out and doing what Julia Cameron calls being “A Shadow Artist.” This is someone who has not gained the courage to put their own creativity at the center of their lives and is more interested in supporting other people. It is a double-edged situation; on the one hand it was helpful, and on the other hand it was a great way of hiding out. It took me a number of years to realize that I wanted to be the one with my own voice and my own message - not just promoting the voice and the message of other people.

Avocationist: What was the first time you got to present your own voice or your own message?

Nick: I did a little bit of it for years, but after that I got involved in an organization called “Alternatives.” They are a mind/body/spirit personal development organization that provides lectures in this area. Alternatives has been around in London for about 26 years now and I have been involved for about 21 years. Because I had a passionate interest in the world of personal growth and personal development, it was a great way of immersing myself in that area. But once again, it was the realization that I wanted to be the one giving the talks with my own voice rather than promoting other people and their voices and their messages. It was probably about 12 years ago that I grasped the idea of being a Shadow Artist. There was a part of me hiding out and I needed to be the one speaking and writing and coaching. It was then that I started writing seriously for the first time - I realized that I had my own voice that I wanted to find and then give expression to it.

Avocationist: You have published a number of books; is that when you started writing your first book?

Nick: Yes. My first book came out 9 years ago, but I started to engage in writing seriously about 12 years ago now when I realized it felt wonderful to give a platform to the voices of other people. I realized that I had my own voice, which I was a bit in touch with, but not deeply in touch with. My first book was called The Work We Were Born To Do. One of the things that I talk about a lot is that when we follow our heart I believe two things happen. One, amazing things happen: doors open and connections get made. I also think that when we follow our heart a “resistance” kicks in. Resistance is all of those inner voices who are our own betrayers who say, “Well, who do you think you are to do anything like this? Get back in your box. No one will want to listen to you.”

“The resistance for me was thinking, ‘Oh yeah; I am going to write a book and people are going to read it and get something from it’”

So my personal journey of following my heart for almost 18 years has been following a sense of inspiration, but also having to learn to deal with massive resistance. The resistance for me was thinking, “Oh yeah; I am going to write a book and people are going to read it and get something from it.” It seemed like the ultimate act of arrogance. “Who would ever want to listen to me? What have I got to say that hasn’t been said better by tons of other people?” So to anybody listening to this or reading this here is my advice: I don’t recommend that you trust your own sense of resistance to your calling that seems arrogant and crazy. It is perhaps your own calling that you need to bring into existence.

“I have been utterly thrilled and probably shocked myself on just how much it has touched people and how many people have related to what I had to write about”

I did go through all my own resistance and then I started writing. I showed my work to a few publishers and then one said, “Yes; I would like to publish your book.” I am thrilled to bits to say that it is still in print 9 years later, which is pretty amazing for a personal development book that usually goes out of print in a year or two. I have been utterly thrilled and probably shocked myself on just how much it has touched people and how many people have related to what I had to write about. I am a great believer that all of us have great talents and great gifts to share, but most of them never get to see the light of day because our own resistance gets the better of us.

Avocationist: It’s interesting that it is almost directly proportional to how close you get to something real that the strength of the resistance is much stronger, isn’t it?

Nick: Yes, and many people think that they are crazy when they experience that. I find it helpful that just as you say, the closer you get to your calling, the bigger the resistance you are likely to feel, but that doesn’t mean you are off track. It actually means you are on track. I don’t know if you have heard of it, but a book that I recommend to anybody who is interested and can resonate with what we are talking about here, is a book called The War of Art by Steven Pressfield.

Avocationist: It is all about creativity and what artists go through. People who are not formal artists don’t understand that your life and what you do is a work of art and you go through those same things that people struggle with.

Nick: Yes, I have 5 books out now.

Avocationist: You said you have a mix of things you do right now with coaching, speaking, and writing; which of those are your favorites or what do you think you are called to do the most?

Nick: I think the truth is that I am called to be a communicator. I am called to get messages out and to some extent, there is no one way of doing it that I prefer. People often think that they are supposed to find one thing and stick with it. I think for many of us we are what I would call renaissance souls. One of the things that I talk about when I help other people make changes is that this is not the case. I have one big passion, which is communicating, and inspiring and educating people, but I have a number of different ways that I have of doing that. None of them is something I want to do every day. What I like about my life is the variety. I like that one day I am giving a talk and then the next day I am at home writing, and the next day I am running a workshop for 100 people. I like that I am on the radio talking to other people, but I wouldn’t want to do any of them full time, but I love doing all of them some of the time.

Avocationist: Have you had any challenges on juggling that or explaining that to people?

Nick: Not so much in terms of juggling. I don’t have children. I have a long-term partner, and so in terms of time-management I probably work less than I have ever worked. What I do is a bit more strategic than it used to be. I used to run around like a headless chicken and I don’t do that quite so much now.

“I am a great believer that you can build a business around your own lifestyle”

Sometimes I travel to give workshops and I do a lot of coaching by phone so I don’t have to commute. I am a great believer that you can build a business around your own lifestyle, and I certainly have chosen to build a business around the lifestyle I want. I don’t work as hard as I used to; I probably touch more people and help more people than I ever have done, but with the internet these days, you can reach a lot of people much more easily than actually going out and meeting them one-on-one like you had to do in the past.

“One of the things that I do is talk about is other ways of being entrepreneurial and call it a heart-felt or inspired entrepreneur”

What I am doing now, and I just literally launched it in the last week or two, is that I believe it is so important that people get on-going support for their dreams. What I have realized is that when people discover the work that they were born to do, not always, but often it does lead them to starting their own business. Yet many of the role models that we have for entrepreneurial development are very competitive more in the line of the 1980’s Gordon Gekko, like Donald Trump. Many people that are doing something that they love just don’t relate to those ideas of being entrepreneurial. One of the things that I do is talk about is other ways of being entrepreneurial and call it a heart-felt or inspired entrepreneur. So now we are launching a community. We just launched a free level of it and now we are launching a premium level of it called the “Inspired Entrepreneur’s Community” or “Inspired Entrepreneur’s Club.” It creates ongoing support, encouragement, and dialog for people to discover what they really want to do and then turn that into their own little business. If you link to “Inspiredentrepreneur.com” people can join up for free and get that ongoing support from myself and other people in the process of building a business around a passion.

Avocationist: I think that is great. I also think it is a great way to have people help you with the resistance because they can see it.

Nick: Yes, because we can usually get away with resistance on our own, but we wouldn’t get away with it in the presence of peers.

In the third of a three-part interview, HomeExchange.com founder Ed Kushins discusses his most difficult and most rewarding careers, the professor who changed his perspective on life, and his advice for those seeking career success.

“What has actually happened is that this has become a hugely successful, profitable business.”

Read the interview and find out:

1. What it’s like to love your job
2. How economics impacts whether you help your Mom
3. What is the key to career success

Read the full interview:

Avocationist: Ed, of all of the jobs that you have done, which were your favorite?

Ed:Well, I loved every minute of my job on the submarine. It was exciting and rewarding and interesting and it was thrilling. I really enjoyed my whole Navy experience. I recommend it for anyone.

“There is nothing that I have ever done that I loved as much as Home Exchange.”

I really liked the first years of growing the metal recycling business. The years after I got the business and I was keeping everything going, I wouldn’t say I didn’t like it, but I really liked the growing part of it. There is nothing that I have ever done that I loved as much as Home Exchange. I totally believe in the Home Exchange concept and because of that, I feel like any part of the work I don’t mind doing. I don’t mind doing the grunt work because I know it is good for the business, and especially because I like the marketing part of it because I like talking to people about it.

“Because of my marketing background, I love finding new ways to market the program.”

Because of my marketing background, I love finding new ways to market the program to what we call affinity groups. Through our efforts we have a Rotary Home Exchange, which we have private labeled for a Rotary International. And YPO; it is the Young President’s Organization, and it’s 16,000 Presidents and CEOs that are under 50 years old, we have just done a private label for them.

“It’s been really a lot of fun taking that pitch on the road.”

We are going to launch for some alumni groups. It’s been such a wonderful product to try to sell because we have been able to go to an alumni group and say, “Listen, here is a free employee/student/faculty and alumni benefit. You don’t have any cost to the university and you can offer this benefit for faculty to travel during the summer, for alumni to travel and exchange with other alumni or just take their own vacations. For parents of students to come visit their student at school and not stay at a hotel. We are going to give discounts to all of those groups and give the university a commission and you don’t have to do anything or pay anything. All you have to do is make the service available to those people through your own marketing channels.” It’s been really a lot of fun taking that pitch on the road. It is offering like a win/win/win/win/win, no cost, no effort revenue coming in situation. It is hard for them to say no to that.

Avocationist:And you get to spread the word about something that you really care about.

Ed:I think I mentioned that my original idea was just to use this as a way to take a couple of trips and maybe tie in a little business and pleasure. What has actually happened is that this has become a hugely successful, profitable business; very profitable and growing, beyond my wildest expectations. It has been beyond fun. If you take that success is liking what you have to do, if you add in making a lot of money at the same time, that is what we have going right now.

Avocationist:Were there any of the transitions that you had to go through that were particularly difficult?

Ed:Yes. The growing transitions are always difficult. Everything takes five times longer than you think it is going to take and the results are 20 percent of what you think they are going to be and the expenses are five times more and the revenue is 20 percent as much. So those transitions are always tough. I have actually had a few other start-ups, so I was ready for that, but even so, it is always tougher than you think it is going to be. You like to have optimistic expectations.

Avocationist: Along the way were there any people who were especially helpful to you in your careers?

Ed:Yes, there were quite a few. One in particular was my economics professor at UCLA who gave me the grounding of economics – not in the GNP kind of economics, but the economics of personal behavior that really set, not just my business philosophy, but really my philosophy of life. It is hard to believe that economics would do that, but that is what the guy did. My next avocation is probably writing a book, which I have drafted, about personal decision-making and between you and me; there is an economic basis for everyone’s decisions about everything. It’s not just about what they spend their money on, but what they do; how they spend their time and what they do with their marriage and their kids and their relationships.

Avocationist:Can you give me an example?

Ed:I will give you one that has nothing to do with money. The basis is that everything people do is an economic decision in terms of the cost and the benefit. Whether they do the analysis logically or emotionally, that is how everybody makes their decisions. Because of that, people have much more freedom than they realize. For example, if someone has a nine-to-five job, they will say, “I have to go to work today.” But the reality is they don’t have to go to work. The reason they go to work is that they have made this subconscious cost/benefit analysis that “If I go to work, I will get paid and if I don’t go to work I could get fired or I won’t get paid for the day.” It may be conscious or it may be subconscious, but they don’t have to go to work. But if they don’t go to work, there will be a cost associated with that. Now most people don’t go through that logical process to evaluate what the cost is; they just say, “I have to go to work.” Even if they went through the logical process, they would say, “Well, what is the cost if I don’t go to work? What is the probability that I will get fired or not get a raise?” There is all this cost/benefit analysis stuff going on and it has to do with money a little bit.

“Am I going to miss the baseball game or feel guilty about not doing something that my mother is using just as a way to get me over to the house?”

Here is another one. Let’s say you have plans to go to the baseball game and your mother calls and says, “I can’t get the pilot light on my stove lit.” Now it is a different kind of economic analysis. “Am I going to miss the baseball game or feel guilty about not doing something that my mother is using just as a way to get me over to the house?” It’s an economic analysis. The cost of going to the baseball game is an emotion; a guilt. It is not anything having to do with money, but there is a cost to that. The cost of going to your mother’s house to do something that she doesn’t really need done is the cost of giving up something that is going to give you some amount of pleasure.

“People think that I am almost a genius for coming up with these things that I learned in Marketing 101.”

Anyway, that guy taught me a lot about human behavior in that economics class. Basically, when people make a decision that involves me, I look at it now as that they are not doing it to me, at me or for me. They are really making their own decision and because I understand that, it allows me to feel more comfortable with other people’s decisions, not just my own.

I had a marketing professor at USC who did the same thing. He taught me a lot of things that the absolute basics of marketing that apply at every level of business and I have taken it with me places. I have dusted them off and used them and people think that I am almost a genius for coming up with these things that I learned in Marketing 101 at grad school from this guy.

Avocationist:It seems to me that your interest in those personal interactions would play into how you get people comfortable with the whole concept of the Home Exchange, too.

Ed:It really is, and it is funny that you mention that because I had to go to Chicago about a month ago for this ABC show and they wanted me there with one of our members. So I called a couple of members and two of them offered to be on the show. The TV show selected one of them, but the other member was so interesting, I ended up going to dinner with her because she is a professor at the University of Northern Illinois at Chicago, and her field of expertise is building trust between people. I said, “This would be great because you are a Home Exchange member and you understand this thing about having a stranger in my house at the gut level, but then you also know it at the academic level.” So we had a four-hour dinner and I learned so much from this woman. It was incredible. I felt like the things I had learned were pieces of the puzzle and she sort of put everything together. It was really, really interesting, and we are actually using a lot of what she said into the next iteration of our website design.

“Trust has many, many, many different levels.”

Just to give you a little: Trust has many, many, many different levels. Probably the one thing that helps build trust is increasing numbers and levels of interactions. They can be very, very passive or they can be very, very active. There are all kinds of interactions. Going back to the Home Exchange, there are things that we can do on the site because this thing about “having a stranger in my house” is one of the biggest pre-obstacles to people being open to the concept. There are all kinds of interactions that we can create that will help break down that barrier. For example, a testimonial, even if it is one-sided, it is a passive interaction that will help break down a barrier. Does that make sense?

Avocationist:Absolutely. When I searched for homes, the first thing I did was to look for people who had done it before. I knew that those people were going to be respectful of it and understand it. I also wanted to find families with girls who were my daughters’ ages because they were in the same situation.

Ed:So we are going to find ways that are not necessarily the networking, but taking those interaction levels that start out passive and open the door to becoming active. If you have three girls and if you could search for three girls, right away, that is going to give you some feeling of connection with that person on the other side. It can go to mountain biker, pilot, yoga… whatever.

Avocationist:Based on what you have learned and experienced, what advice would you give to people who are figuring out what they want to do next?

Ed:Do or find something that you really, really love to do and you can find a way to make that your vocation. Are you are going to get into a gardening business because you think you can make some money at it? You might be able to make some money, but unless you really like what you are doing, you are not going to make as much money and you are not going to be as happy. Unless you really, really like it, you are not going to make as much money as if you are doing something that you really, really like and understand. If you like fishing, get into something to do with the fishing business.

Avocationist:I agree that people need to do anything related to something they love. Even if it is just spending an hour a night looking on the Internet, you will find ideas; it will come if it is something that you really, really like. It is not hard to get started.

Ed:Yes, and I think if you love it, you are going to be able to find ways to market it and things to do with the business that you wouldn’t be able to if you didn’t love it. So find what you like to do and that is where you outta be.

Avocationist:Is there anything else you would like to add?

Ed:Just two more things. One of the things I love about this business is making connections with people. I don’t do it with the idea that “What can I get out of it?” Karma exists, and if you do stuff, somehow, someway, it does come back. I cannot tell you how many times three or four years after something I did, not having any idea that there was going to be this different connection, it came back.

“Three weeks ago, he called me up out of the blue and I had not talked to him for a year, with a huge connection for me for Home Exchange; an unbelievable, great connection, out of nowhere.”

I met this guy about three years ago and we did a business deal and it didn’t really work out, but that was fine because we both went into it with our eyes open. I kept in touch with this guy and a couple of people said, “Well that didn’t work out.” I said, “You know what? I took a shot and he is a nice guy.” Three weeks ago, he called me up out of the blue and I had not talked to him for a year, with a huge connection for me for Home Exchange; an unbelievable, great connection, out of nowhere.

Avocationist:I have found the same thing.

Ed:Here is an interesting story. One of my members, after he arranged this, called me up and said, “I sold my company and I bought a golf course. The golf course is basically running by itself and I have three kids all under 8 years old, and I wanted to let you know that I just arranged a Home Exchange and we are going to France for a year and I am putting my kids into French Public School.” I thought this was a fantastic story so I kept in touch with the guy. His golf course was in Arizona and I had a TV interview there, so I went over to meet the people who had done the exchange with him and were living in his house. This guy is in France and his year is almost up. You know what? They